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Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
12-04-2014, 10:12 AM
Post: #1131
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-04-2014 02:57 AM)judelol Wrote:  I recently bought a new monitor: Benq XL24LLZ. It is capable of 144 Hz, but I cannot get it above 65 hz.

Your program works; however, when I try to select any refresh rate past 65 hz, my monitor gives me the following warning: WRONG CABLE, USE DUAL LINK DVI CABLE THAT CAME WITH THE MONITOR.

Well, I am using the DVI dual link cable that came with the monitor...

My graphics card is an XFX HD Radeon 7850, and I am sure that I plugged it into the correct port, as the other part specifcally says VGA, and even when I do use that port, the monitor only shows a black screen.

Any ideas as to why I get this cable warning, when I know the cable is correct?
The cable warning means the monitor is receiving a single-link DVI signal. 7850 cards usually only have one dual-link DVI port, and it might be the port marked VGA. VGA just means it can be used with a DVI-VGA adapter. If the monitor is connected to a single-link DVI port, you shouldn't be able to add any resolutions beyond 165 MHz pixel clock.

If you can't get the monitor working properly with either port, then there's a hardware issue somewhere, either with the monitor, cable, or video card.
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12-04-2014, 03:59 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2014 04:09 PM by Danja.)
Post: #1132
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
Hey chaps, I've had a good read about and don't seem to be able to find out what's going on. I've got an AOC G2460FQ - which is advertised as a 144hz monitor. My problem? From what I'm reading, scan lines or PWM sensitivity.

When I run d3d apps, at 144hz, I get these weird "bars" running across dark/light stuff like fog in shadow of mordor, or walls with shadow in CSGO. I messed around with the monitor timing and managed to reduce it a bit, but I can't get rid of it.

if I turn the monitor down to 120hz its fine, I don't get the problem. Is it possible I'm seeing this because my eyes are sensitive to PWM LED stuff (which I assume these monitors are using, as their cheap...ish)
EDIT:
I ask, nay plead, for information that can help me solve this. Right now I'm on the verge of just using this a second monitor and grabbing an ASUS/EZIO that will work at the 144hz I want.

I've got the display running on a DP cable, but I've also tested with Dual link dvi cables and its the same result. I've patched the pixel clock, made sure there's no interference messing with my data cables, adjusted timing to LCD reduced, treid normal, nothing seems to get rid of the lines. They're not even aggressively noticable, but just enough of a shimmer in things like fog (about 5-10 pixel bars running horizontally across the screen) or shadows to really distract my eyes, which in something like CSGO that is concentration dependant its pretty annoying Big Grin

Just to add, I've even upgraded my GFX card from a 7870 to a r9 290 recently, and that made not a scrap of difference.

Thanks!

EDIT: Forgot to mention, when I change the sync polarity in CRU, I can change how the lines appear. with a +/- sync they appear if I look upwards, or pan up d3d stuff, with +/+, they appear when I look down.
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12-05-2014, 02:18 PM
Post: #1133
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-04-2014 03:59 PM)Danja Wrote:  Hey chaps, I've had a good read about and don't seem to be able to find out what's going on. I've got an AOC G2460FQ - which is advertised as a 144hz monitor. My problem? From what I'm reading, scan lines or PWM sensitivity.

When I run d3d apps, at 144hz, I get these weird "bars" running across dark/light stuff like fog in shadow of mordor, or walls with shadow in CSGO. I messed around with the monitor timing and managed to reduce it a bit, but I can't get rid of it.

if I turn the monitor down to 120hz its fine, I don't get the problem. Is it possible I'm seeing this because my eyes are sensitive to PWM LED stuff (which I assume these monitors are using, as their cheap...ish)
This doesn't sound like a PWM problem. Most monitors are edge-lit, so PWM wouldn't produce lines or bars. PWM is also tied to the refresh rate on most monitors, so it should be less noticeable at higher refresh rates.

This seems more like an issue with the way the monitor is dithering. AMD cards also dither, so the two dithering patterns might be clashing and producing the artifacts you're seeing.

Check the Catalyst Control Center under "Information" -> "Software" to get the 2D driver path. Then run regedit.exe and open that path in the left pane. You should see values in the right pane like "AdapterDesc" and a bunch of settings. Add a DWORD value named TMDS_DisableDither (for DVI) or DP_DisableDither (for DisplayPort) with a value of 1. Then reboot and check if the artifacts are still there.

If that doesn't help, the monitor might be defective, or it has crappy dithering at 144 Hz.
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12-05-2014, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 02:41 PM by Danja.)
Post: #1134
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 02:18 PM)ToastyX Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 03:59 PM)Danja Wrote:  Hey chaps, I've had a good read about and don't seem to be able to find out what's going on. I've got an AOC G2460FQ - which is advertised as a 144hz monitor. My problem? From what I'm reading, scan lines or PWM sensitivity.

When I run d3d apps, at 144hz, I get these weird "bars" running across dark/light stuff like fog in shadow of mordor, or walls with shadow in CSGO. I messed around with the monitor timing and managed to reduce it a bit, but I can't get rid of it.

if I turn the monitor down to 120hz its fine, I don't get the problem. Is it possible I'm seeing this because my eyes are sensitive to PWM LED stuff (which I assume these monitors are using, as their cheap...ish)
This doesn't sound like a PWM problem. Most monitors are edge-lit, so PWM wouldn't produce lines or bars. PWM is also tied to the refresh rate on most monitors, so it should be less noticeable at higher refresh rates.

This seems more like an issue with the way the monitor is dithering. AMD cards also dither, so the two dithering patterns might be clashing and producing the artifacts you're seeing.

Check the Catalyst Control Center under "Information" -> "Software" to get the 2D driver path. Then run regedit.exe and open that path in the left pane. You should see values in the right pane like "AdapterDesc" and a bunch of settings. Add a DWORD value named TMDS_DisableDither (for DVI) or DP_DisableDither (for DisplayPort) with a value of 1. Then reboot and check if the artifacts are still there.

If that doesn't help, the monitor might be defective, or it has crappy dithering at 144 Hz.

I don't have the CCC installed, I just have the drivers and control application settings from radeonpro (will that have an option in it?). I'm also running win 10 TP, but this same problem happens in my windows 7 install too.

This is the third monitor I've had from amazon as I had suspected it might've failed, and they've all had this issue (I actually have two, as amazon screwed up and sent me too many and only wanted one returning).

The dithering sounds possible, I'll track down the reg values and report back, thanks for reply Smile

EDIt: Also, while I remember, it doesn't matter if I pan up and down on the screen, or keep the mouse still and move my head up and down infront of the monitor, I can still see these lines.. does that change anything?
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12-05-2014, 03:09 PM
Post: #1135
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 02:33 PM)Danja Wrote:  The dithering sounds possible, I'll track down the reg values and report back, thanks for reply Smile
It's usually under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Control/CLASS/{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}/####

In the device manager, open the display adapter properties. In the "Details" tab, check the "Driver key" property to see which key it is.

(12-05-2014 02:33 PM)Danja Wrote:  EDIt: Also, while I remember, it doesn't matter if I pan up and down on the screen, or keep the mouse still and move my head up and down infront of the monitor, I can still see these lines.. does that change anything?
Two dithering patterns clashing can produce rolling lines.

It could also be the inversion pattern, but I don't think 144 Hz panels use lines for the inversion pattern.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

If your monitor flickers on pattern 5 or 6, then you might be seeing the inversion pattern, but it shouldn't be significantly worse at 144 Hz.
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12-05-2014, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2014 03:27 PM by Danja.)
Post: #1136
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 02:18 PM)ToastyX Wrote:  
(12-04-2014 03:59 PM)Danja Wrote:  Hey chaps, I've had a good read about and don't seem to be able to find out what's going on. I've got an AOC G2460FQ - which is advertised as a 144hz monitor. My problem? From what I'm reading, scan lines or PWM sensitivity.

When I run d3d apps, at 144hz, I get these weird "bars" running across dark/light stuff like fog in shadow of mordor, or walls with shadow in CSGO. I messed around with the monitor timing and managed to reduce it a bit, but I can't get rid of it.

if I turn the monitor down to 120hz its fine, I don't get the problem. Is it possible I'm seeing this because my eyes are sensitive to PWM LED stuff (which I assume these monitors are using, as their cheap...ish)
This doesn't sound like a PWM problem. Most monitors are edge-lit, so PWM wouldn't produce lines or bars. PWM is also tied to the refresh rate on most monitors, so it should be less noticeable at higher refresh rates.

This seems more like an issue with the way the monitor is dithering. AMD cards also dither, so the two dithering patterns might be clashing and producing the artifacts you're seeing.

Check the Catalyst Control Center under "Information" -> "Software" to get the 2D driver path. Then run regedit.exe and open that path in the left pane. You should see values in the right pane like "AdapterDesc" and a bunch of settings. Add a DWORD value named TMDS_DisableDither (for DVI) or DP_DisableDither (for DisplayPort) with a value of 1. Then reboot and check if the artifacts are still there.

If that doesn't help, the monitor might be defective, or it has crappy dithering at 144 Hz.

Right I set both those options (I have two of the monitors, one on the DP, one on the DVI-D dual link) to one in my registry, and it's not made a difference unfortunately.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4d36e968-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}\0000 was where I put them, that seems to be a pretty universal installation location for it, after checking google quickly.

I'm literally flat out of ideas, if you have any other suggestion it would be very much appreciated Smile

(12-05-2014 03:09 PM)ToastyX Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 02:33 PM)Danja Wrote:  The dithering sounds possible, I'll track down the reg values and report back, thanks for reply Smile
It's usually under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Control/CLASS/{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}/####

In the device manager, open the display adapter properties. In the "Details" tab, check the "Driver key" property to see which key it is.

(12-05-2014 02:33 PM)Danja Wrote:  EDIt: Also, while I remember, it doesn't matter if I pan up and down on the screen, or keep the mouse still and move my head up and down infront of the monitor, I can still see these lines.. does that change anything?
Two dithering patterns clashing can produce rolling lines.

It could also be the inversion pattern, but I don't think 144 Hz panels use lines for the inversion pattern.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

If your monitor flickers on pattern 5 or 6, then you might be seeing the inversion pattern, but it shouldn't be significantly worse at 144 Hz.

Should have refreshed my page first.

If I full screen the tests, 3 produces horizontal bars that float up teh screen at 120hz but not at 144, 5 looks really weird at 144hz fullscreen but I think its just my eyes, its like a small black bar will appear in it if i move my head further and closer quickly, 6A on head movement produces something similar to what I see in game, but a bit different, same for 6 b. The same thing happens on 120hz though in these tests, and I don't see that in game at this frequency.

EDIT: Again, second though, when I keep the mouse and my head still, those lines aren't there, incase I hadn't been clear, its a movement thing.
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12-05-2014, 04:34 PM
Post: #1137
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 03:11 PM)Danja Wrote:  EDIT: Again, second though, when I keep the mouse and my head still, those lines aren't there, incase I hadn't been clear, its a movement thing.
Yes, that would either be dithering and/or the inversion pattern. There's nothing you can do because those are part of the monitor's hardware. I guess the monitor just has stronger dithering/inversion at 144 Hz.
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12-05-2014, 04:56 PM
Post: #1138
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 04:34 PM)ToastyX Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 03:11 PM)Danja Wrote:  EDIT: Again, second though, when I keep the mouse and my head still, those lines aren't there, incase I hadn't been clear, its a movement thing.
Yes, that would either be dithering and/or the inversion pattern. There's nothing you can do because those are part of the monitor's hardware. I guess the monitor just has stronger dithering/inversion at 144 Hz.

Ah well, I guess I'll just stick with 120hz and sell the spare one and put it towards a higher end panel. Thanks for your help, its good to know what's causing it at least!

Last question, any particular 120/144hz monitor you'd recommend?
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12-05-2014, 07:37 PM
Post: #1139
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 04:56 PM)Danja Wrote:  Ah well, I guess I'll just stick with 120hz and sell the spare one and put it towards a higher end panel. Thanks for your help, its good to know what's causing it at least!

Last question, any particular 120/144hz monitor you'd recommend?
I'd say one of the BenQ Z-series monitors: XL2411Z, XL2420Z, XL2720Z

They have a blur reduction feature that works like LightBoost without washing out the colors, and it can be used at 144 Hz. I can't guarantee they won't have any dithering/inversion artifacts though. Strobing can also make inversion artifacts worse, but you can always turn strobing off.
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12-06-2014, 02:25 AM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2014 02:25 AM by Danja.)
Post: #1140
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-05-2014 07:37 PM)ToastyX Wrote:  
(12-05-2014 04:56 PM)Danja Wrote:  Ah well, I guess I'll just stick with 120hz and sell the spare one and put it towards a higher end panel. Thanks for your help, its good to know what's causing it at least!

Last question, any particular 120/144hz monitor you'd recommend?
I'd say one of the BenQ Z-series monitors: XL2411Z, XL2420Z, XL2720Z

They have a blur reduction feature that works like LightBoost without washing out the colors, and it can be used at 144 Hz. I can't guarantee they won't have any dithering/inversion artifacts though. Strobing can also make inversion artifacts worse, but you can always turn strobing off.

Is a Benq XL2430T in the same ballpark? I think its the newer version of the 2420Z but easier to get hold of in the UK at a better price. Thanks! Smile
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