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Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
12-20-2015, 02:35 PM
Post: #1871
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-20-2015 06:13 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Actually, adding a new resolution to Detail Resolutions and restarting the driver doesn't add this resolution to Windows Display Resolutions list regardless of timing parameters chosen.
It should. You might need the pixel clock patch since you're using a passive DisplayPort-HDMI adapter: https://www.monitortests.com/forum/Threa...ck-Patcher

(12-20-2015 06:13 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Only after I add the same resolution and parameters in AMD Customs Resolutions, its added to that list, and I can switch to it. But again, left screen side overlaps.
You still haven't told me what timing parameters you used. "CVT-RB" should match "LCD standard" for 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz.

(12-20-2015 06:13 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Speaking of scaling slider, I wouldn't ask this question how to get back to original display size, if it were possible by simply sliding it back to 0. As I said, at 0 the screen size is still a bit less than it originally was by factory settings. Do you know what monitor settings I can play with to get its size reset?
You didn't say that. I don't know what settings your monitor has, and I don't know what you changed. Monitors don't normally underscan like that.
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12-20-2015, 06:58 PM (Last edited: 12-20-2015, 07:25 PM by roadczar)
Post: #1872
Question RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
I have been trying to resolve this for a while and hope someone can help.

I have used the following tweak in windows 8.1 to force 144Hz on my Asus Rog Swift PG278Q / AMD Radeon R295X2 / Displayport.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php...th-R9-290X

After upgrading to Windows 10 there is nothing I can do to force 144Hz. It does not show up in the resolution drop down even after adding it via the latest Clock Patcher / CRU.
Again this worked fine in Win 8.1
Any ideas?
Thanks!

   
   
   
   
   
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12-21-2015, 04:19 AM
Post: #1873
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-20-2015 06:58 PM)roadczar Wrote:  I have used the following tweak in windows 8.1 to force 144Hz on my Asus Rog Swift PG278Q / AMD Radeon R295X2 / Displayport.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php...th-R9-290X

After upgrading to Windows 10 there is nothing I can do to force 144Hz. It does not show up in the resolution drop down even after adding it via the latest Clock Patcher / CRU.
The patch is for DVI and HDMI. It does nothing for DisplayPort. 144 Hz should work out of the box. You shouldn't need to add it manually because it should already exist in the default extension block. CRU can't help if the default 144 Hz isn't even listed. That would be a driver issue that you should contact AMD support about.

Your first screen shot shows a range limits descriptor with a 540 MHz pixel clock limit. Did you add the range limits descriptor or was it already included by default? CRU is not supposed to include it by default in this case.
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12-21-2015, 01:00 PM
Post: #1874
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-21-2015 04:19 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  The patch is for DVI and HDMI. It does nothing for DisplayPort. 144 Hz should work out of the box. You shouldn't need to add it manually because it should already exist in the default extension block. CRU can't help if the default 144 Hz isn't even listed. That would be a driver issue that you should contact AMD support about.

Your first screen shot shows a range limits descriptor with a 540 MHz pixel clock limit. Did you add the range limits descriptor or was it already included by default? CRU is not supposed to include it by default in this case.

Range limits descriptor was automatically added as the result of the other settings. I figured it was a driver issue, but was hoping there is a way to force it. Thanks for your reply.
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12-22-2015, 01:54 PM (Last edited: 12-22-2015, 02:47 PM by kaftul)
Post: #1875
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
So, I tried CRU for the first time last night to try an see if I can run my monitor @75 Hz at its native resolution. The monitor is Acer G247HYLbmidx which support 75 Hz natively at low resolutions.

Initially I managed to easily force 65 and 70 Hz on the monitor with the LCD-standard profile and at same time keep my AMD card at default idle clocks. Then I tried 75 Hz and noticed that the colors become completely distorted at 75 Hz and anything above that would result in out of range message from the monitor. After playing around with different refresh rates, I noticed that with any setting that would need a pixel clock of above 165 MHz, I get color distortion, even though I am using DVI and the limit should be 330 MHz. After checking my cable, I noticed that the cable that was shipped with my monitor is actually single-link, so, I bought a dual-link cable right away, hoping that I would be able to successfully use pixel clocks above 165 MHz but I was wrong, I still got color distortion with anything above 165 MHz. I also tried patching my driver once but after patching, anything above 165 MHz would result in out of range message form the monitor instead of the color distortion, so I reverted the patch. Does this mean that my monitor, even though its DVI port physically has all the dual-link pins, is actually only capable of processing single-link signals?

I also managed to reach 72 Hz with a pixel clock of less than 165 Hz while keeping the vertical total the same as the standard profile to keep my card at correct idle clocks but with 75 Hz, if I use the reduced profile to have a pixel clock of less than 165 MHz, my card will not go down to idle clocks anymore and if I keep the vertical total the same as the standard profile for correct idle clocks, I cannot bring the horizontal total low enough for the pixel clock to be lower than 165 MHz. Is there any way I can get 75 Hz with correct idle clocks for my GPU?

P.S. CRU reads the maximum pixel clock of my monitor as 170 Hz but I am not sure if that means what I think it does.
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12-23-2015, 12:31 AM (Last edited: 12-23-2015, 06:49 AM by zamar19)
Post: #1876
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
Quote:ToastyX Wrote:
You still haven't told me what timing parameters you used. "CVT-RB" should match "LCD standard" for 2560x1440 @ 60 Hz.

Thanks for your help and tools! Smile Once I applied your AMD Patcher and rebooted the PC, AMD driver auto identified all missing 4K resolutions for this Seiki 42" 4K SE42UMT monitor. I compared them to CRU options, and they all matched LCD Native timings. No other timing standards work. I was only able to run it at 3840x2160@30Hz 8bpc due to HDMI1.4 bandwidth limit, but the monitor has HDMI 2.0 input, so I'd need a DP1.2-to-HDMI2.0 adapter for this or new HDMI 2.0 card. It runs perfect now at 4K@30Hz with no lag, though I didn't try it with heavy games, and overclocking with this setup isn't possible.

Its interesting, AMD FirePro V4900 800 MHz Engine Clock only spec'd at max 2560x1600@60Hz 280Mhz per port (with 2 DP1.2 and 1 Dual DVI), but it runs 4K@30Hz 8bpc 297 MHz easily on 1 port and 1080P@60Hz 8bpc 148.5 MHz on another with no extra fan speed. How do I check its actual resolution limits? Or the max Pixel Clock is the only limit that matters for any card, and everything else in resolution spec is flexible? Do they specify in spec max total pixel clock for all ports of a given GPU running monitors simultaneously, or how the max spec works?

One problem I've is it shows 4:2:2 chroma at 4K on test images like this one, despite the monitor is 4:4:4 capable. At lower resolutions it's scaling desktop, so the test results are inconclusive. Do you think its caused by current setup bandwidth limit?

Another issue is it only shows 8bit color at any resolution, but its likely because AMD didn't implement yet 10-bit pixel output support in latest Win 10 FirePro drivers as per Release Notes, unless you can suggest some beta driver? The 10-bit option is available in FirePro CC, but it results in black screen upon reboot. Not sure if Win7 & 8 drivers will add 10-bit in Win 10, as they did in Win 7 & 8?

Btw, this forum Quote button doesn't work for me in latest FF43.
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12-23-2015, 01:54 AM
Post: #1877
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-23-2015 12:31 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Its interesting, V4900 only spec'd at max 2560x1600@60Hz per port (with 2 DP1.2 and 1 Dual DVI), but it runs 4K@30 easily on 1 port and 1080P@60Hz on another with no extra fan speed. How do I check its actual resolution limits? Or the max Pixel Clock is the only limit that matters for any card, and everything else in resolution spec is flexible? Do they specify in spec max total pixel clock for all ports of a given GPU running monitors simultaneously, or how the max spec works?
The pixel clock is what matters. The maximum pixel clock is separate for each port. Single-link DVI is normally 165 MHz, and dual-link DVI is normally 330 MHz. HDMI varies depending on the hardware. I don't know about FirePro cards, but Radeon 7000-series and newer R9-series cards support up to 297 MHz with HDMI, although using a passive DisplayPort-HDMI adapter is limited to 165 MHz for some reason. The limits are implemented in the driver, so the pixel clock patch allows you to bypass these limits and go as far as the hardware can handle.

(12-23-2015 12:31 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  One problem I've is it shows 4:2:2 chroma at 4K on test images like this one, despite the monitor is 4:4:4 capable. At lower resolutions it's scaling desktop, so the test results are inconclusive. Do you think its caused by current setup bandwidth limit?
Is that happening with the pixel format set to YCbCr 4:4:4 in the FirePro control panel? What about RGB 4:4:4?

If YCbCr 4:4:4 is not available as an option, you might need a custom extension block, or you can just import this file: hdmi-audio.dat

If you add an HDMI support data block in the extension block, it will automatically include YCbCr 4:4:4 by default, and you can also enable 30-bit color (10 bpc).

You might have to manually add some resolutions back in when using a custom extension block. I hope to add support for reading default extension blocks in CRU 1.3.

(12-23-2015 12:31 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Another issue is it only shows 8bit color at any resolution, but its likely because AMD didn't implement yet 10-bit pixel output support in latest Win 10 FirePro drivers as per Release Notes, unless you can suggest some beta driver? The 10-bit option is available in FirePro CP, but it results in black screen upon reboot.
I don't know how FirePro handles 10-bit color with HDMI. With Radeon cards, the color depth can be set to "10 bpc" in the "Digital Flat-Panel" properties if it's enabled in the HDMI support data block.

(12-23-2015 12:31 AM)zamar19 Wrote:  Btw, this forum Quote feature doesn't work for me in latest FF43.
That's weird. I'm not seeing that with the latest FireFox.
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12-23-2015, 02:00 AM
Post: #1878
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-22-2015 01:54 PM)kaftul Wrote:  Does this mean that my monitor, even though its DVI port physically has all the dual-link pins, is actually only capable of processing single-link signals?
That's normally the case with 1920x1080 monitors. Only 120/144 Hz monitors have dual-link DVI.

(12-22-2015 01:54 PM)kaftul Wrote:  I also managed to reach 72 Hz with a pixel clock of less than 165 Hz while keeping the vertical total the same as the standard profile to keep my card at correct idle clocks but with 75 Hz, if I use the reduced profile to have a pixel clock of less than 165 MHz, my card will not go down to idle clocks anymore and if I keep the vertical total the same as the standard profile for correct idle clocks, I cannot bring the horizontal total low enough for the pixel clock to be lower than 165 MHz. Is there any way I can get 75 Hz with correct idle clocks for my GPU?
This is under 165 MHz for 75 Hz, but I don't know if your monitor will accept it:

H: 1920 8 16 16
V: 1080 3 5 31
75 Hz = 164.50 MHz pixel clock

Monitor limits are usually not exact, so you might be able to get away with slightly more than 165 MHz with the patch:

H: 1920 16 16 16 or 1920 8 16 24
V: 1080 3 5 31
75 Hz = 165.18 MHz pixel clock

You might have better luck with HDMI. 7000-series and newer cards don't need the patch if HDMI support is defined in the extension block, and the monitor might accept higher pixel clocks with HDMI.

(12-22-2015 01:54 PM)kaftul Wrote:  P.S. CRU reads the maximum pixel clock of my monitor as 170 Hz but I am not sure if that means what I think it does.
The range limits descriptor is informational and doesn't always reflect what the monitor will accept, which is why CRU doesn't include it by default. The maximum pixel clock can only be defined as a multiple of 10, so it's often defined as 170 MHz instead of 165 MHz.
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12-23-2015, 05:28 AM (Last edited: 12-24-2015, 05:02 AM by zamar19)
Post: #1879
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
@ToastyX

Thanks again. I'll follow your advice. Why YCbCr 4:4:4 has a better chance to show 4:4:4 than FullRGB 4:4:4, despite Full & Limited RGB are the only options in FirePro CC for 4K reso, while YCbCr 4:4:4 options also show up for lower reso? Does it require lower bandwidth - your Color Correction article doesn't mention it? See this monitor EDID below.
How adding 4:4:4 output and 10-bit color would add to required bandwidth? Will it still fit into ~400 Mhz limit, or these specs don't affect it much? FirePro CC shows DPF choice 8, 10, 12bpc for the monitor at lower reso, but only 8bpc for 4K@30Hz, so is it restricted by the DP-to-HDMI adapter bandwidth? Would it allow switching to 4K 10-bit via Dual DVI?

In FirePro CC there're 2 sections handling 10-bit color, presumably via DP1.2 and Dual DVI. One is DFP Color Depth, which to my understanding sets in Registry the user preferred supported by the monitor color depth. At 4k reso its stuck at 8bpc only, possibly due to my current setup bandwidth limit. Another section is 10-bit pixel output, which seems to set the GPU signal actual pixel color depth. If GPU can send 10-bit and you force it at the source, then you can select the signal receiving monitor property to match it. In Radeon cards, if only DFP CD options are shown, but no GPU 10-bit option, then the driver won't send a 10-bit signal regardless what signal you select for the monitor to accept. Does CRU allow to activate the GPU option in Radeon, not only DFP option? In FirePro I can set it now to 10-bit pixel out, but the display blacks out (not implemented in current Win 10 driver & insufficient bandwidth?).

Also, how setting Wide Gamut Profile or ICC in Windows Color Management - Advanced - Device Profile and CRU may add into this? This monitor 10-bit panel supports Color Gamut & Saturation Level 72% of NTSC CRT level, so it seems qualified as Standard rather than Wide Gamut RGB. How much extra bandwidth requires Wide Gamut to pass wider color saturation values range from GPU? May be none, if each pixel saturation is passed as one value? I assume, Wide Gamut option would appear in FirePro CC Pixel Format settings if supported by the monitor, or does one need to add it in Custom extension block? Should it be supported by the video card and driver too, and what would confirm such support? Would using YCbCr 4:4:4 limit the monitor Color Gamut range compare to FullRGB 4:4:4?

Do you plan to add an ICC Profile for this monitor? Its gettings quite popular due to low cost. Pls consider adding more Color Gamut info to your ICC article, since most users wouldn't know the difference btw Color Depth (pixel bitness affecting number of intensity shades per reproducible color) and Color Gamut (measuring min and max saturation intensity of each color, and affecting saturation level of each color shade), and how visible on a given monitor Gamut is affected not only by ICC, but GPU color settings and available ports bandwidth. Blush

Seiki 42" 4K EDID

Code:
Monitor #1 [Real-time 0x0051]
  Model name............... SE42UMT
  Manufacturer............. SEK
  Plug and Play ID......... SEK0030
  Serial number............ n/a
  Manufacture date......... 2015, ISO week 26
  Filter driver............ None
  -------------------------
  EDID revision............ 1.3
  Input signal type........ Digital
  Color bit depth.......... Undefined
  Display type............. RGB color
  Screen size.............. 930 x 540 mm (42.3 in)
  Power management......... Not supported
  Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
  -------------------------
  DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
  Default color space...... Non-sRGB
  Display gamma............ 2.20
  Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.340
  Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.690
  Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.138 - By 0.038
  White point (default).... Wx 0.282 - Wy 0.297
  Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
  Horizontal scan range.... 31-140kHz
  Vertical scan range...... 59-70Hz
  Video bandwidth.......... 600MHz
  CVT standard............. Not supported
  GTF standard............. Not supported
  Additional descriptors... None
  Preferred timing......... Yes
  Native/preferred timing.. 3840x2160p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "3840x2160" 594.000 3840 4016 4104 4400 2160 2168 2178 2250 +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
    2288 x 1430p at  61Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
  Revision number.......... 3
  IT underscan............. Supported
  Basic audio.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
  Native formats........... 2
  Detailed timing #1....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
  Detailed timing #2....... 1440x480i at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1440x480" 27.000 1440 1478 1602 1716 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
    1920 x 1080i at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1280 x  720p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
     720 x  480p at  60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
     640 x  480p at  60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
     720 x  480i at  60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
    1920 x 1080p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
    1920 x 1080p at  24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080p at  30Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
     720 x  480p at  60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
     720 x  480i at  60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
    NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
  LPCM    2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz
  AC-3    2-channel, 20/24 bit depths    at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
  Channel configuration.... 2.0
  Front left/right......... Yes
  Front LFE................ No
  Front center............. No
  Rear left/right.......... No
  Rear center.............. No
  Front left/right center.. No
  Rear left/right center... No
  Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
  IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
  CEC physical address..... 3.0.0.0
  Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. No
  Supports 48bpp........... Yes
  Supports 36bpp........... Yes
  Supports 30bpp........... Yes
  Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
  Supports dual-link DVI... No
  Maximum TMDS clock....... 340MHz
  Audio/video latency (p).. n/a
  Audio/video latency (i).. n/a
  HDMI video capabilities.. Yes
  EDID screen size......... No additional info
  3D formats supported..... Not supported
  Data payload............. 030C003000784420008001020304

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
  IEEE registration number. 0xC45DD8
  CEC physical address..... 0.1.7.8
  Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
  Supports 48bpp........... Yes
  Supports 36bpp........... No
  Supports 30bpp........... No
  Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... Yes
  Supports dual-link DVI... No
  Maximum TMDS clock....... 35MHz

CE colorimetry data
  xvYCC709 support......... Yes
  xvYCC601 support......... Yes
  sYCC601 support.......... No
  AdobeYCC601 support...... No
  AdobeRGB support......... No
  Metadata profile flags... 0x01

Reserved video related data
  Data payload............. 0F000000

Report information
  Date generated........... 12/19/2015
  Software revision........ 2.90.0.1002
  Data source.............. Real-time 0x0051
  Operating system......... 10.0.10240.2

Raw data
  00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,4C,AB,30,00,01,01,01,01,1A,19,01,03,80,5D,36,78,0A,​CF,74,A3,57,4C,B0,23,
  09,48,4C,00,00,00,01,01,01,FF,01,FF,FF,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,20,08,E8,00,​30,F2,70,5A,80,B0,58,
  8A,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,1E,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,45,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,​1E,00,00,00,FC,00,53,
  45,34,32,55,4D,54,0A,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FD,00,3B,46,1F,8C,3C,00,0A,20,​20,20,20,20,20,01,60,
  02,03,42,F2,52,05,84,03,01,07,90,20,22,5D,5F,61,62,64,66,5E,63,02,06,26,09,​07,07,11,07,06,83,01,
  00,00,6E,03,0C,00,30,00,78,44,20,00,80,01,02,03,04,67,D8,5D,C4,01,78,C8,07,​E3,05,03,01,E4,0F,00,
  00,00,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E,96,00,C4,8E,21,00,00,18,8C,0A,A0,14,51,​F0,16,00,26,7C,43,00,
  C4,8E,21,00,00,98,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,​00,00,00,00,00,00,57
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12-23-2015, 07:24 AM
Post: #1880
RE: Custom Resolution Utility (CRU)
(12-23-2015 02:00 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  That's normally the case with 1920x1080 monitors. Only 120/144 Hz monitors have dual-link DVI.
Ouch, I should have asked here before rushing to buy a new cable.

(12-23-2015 02:00 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  This is under 165 MHz for 75 Hz, but I don't know if your monitor will accept it:
It seems that whatever I set, if the total for Horizontal is lower than 1980, the new refresh rate does not appear in CCC after resetting the driver.

(12-23-2015 02:00 AM)ToastyX Wrote:  You might have better luck with HDMI. 7000-series and newer cards don't need the patch if HDMI support is defined in the extension block, and the monitor might accept higher pixel clocks with HDMI.
Yes, you are completely right. I switched to HDMI and managed to get 75 Hz with LCD-standard profile without any issues. In fact, I can even get 80 Hz with the reduced profile using HDMI but I prefer to stick to 75 Hz and have my GPU running at correct idle clocks and not push my monitor too far. It seems that my monitor is more than capable of processing a pixel clock of up to at least 175 MHz but it doesn't support dual-link DVI signal. Now I have two DVI cables on my hand that I have no use for! Big Grin

Anyway, thank you for your help and this great piece of software.
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